Rose vs. Calacanis
Normally I wouldn't comment on a pissing match between web sites, but in this case I think what's happening is not so nice.
To recap, Netscape boss Jason Calacanis offered to pay Digg's top posters (as well as the top posters on Newsvine, Flickr, Reddit, and del.icio.us) to post on netscape.com's ripoff Digg page instead. Kevin Rose called the proposal BS on his podcast "Diggnation." Calacanis reared up and complained that Kevin didn't address the issue. Kevin shot back. Go ahead read. And watch. I'll wait.
Jason is getting more mileage out of this than he deserves, but you can't blame the guy for trying to pump up his web site. I do blame him, however, for saying that Digg is ripping off its top contributors by not paying them. The implication is that Kevin is greedy and holding out on the guys that made him a success. And he says that Kevin is stooping to an ad hominem attack??
The question is, do the top 10 contributors on a social networking site determine its success?
Of course not.
Kevin and his team created the value by building a site that attracted hundreds of thousands of users. Yes, the users also create value in aggregate but no group of 10 is more important than the rest. Can anyone, even Jason, seriously believe that netscape.com would suddenly become a better site if those 10 moved there? Would Digg be any less popular?
Digg is what it is because of the entire community that participates there. Ditto del.icio.us, and Flicker, and Newsvine. Losing any 10 contributors would make no difference at all.
Kevin doesn't owe dirtyfratboy for his work, work he undertook on his own without any notion of payment. If Mr. Frat Boy decides to go for the gold and move to Netscape, god bless him. His move will matter not a whit to anyone, anywhere.
Jason knows this. Once again the Brooklyn boy has whipped up a nice publicity stunt. But attempting to create bogus resentments in the community is a lousy way to get publicity. I have no problem with his offer to pay Digg's top posters. I don't think it's going to make any difference, but I have no problem with it.
I do have a problem when he insinuates that anyone who doesn't pay is a capitalist pig exploiting his workers. That's just nonsense and destructive to the very social network he pretends to want to foster.
Comments
I think it's also important to point out that the posters to community sites like Digg and Fark aren't really doing any work besides recreational web-surfing anyway. Linking to an article you found in the course of your everyday activity does not take much effort. And if you are spending a large quantity of time purposely trying to get articles greenlit on those kinds of site, you should probably be spending your time more wisely anyway.
I agree Leo, it's destuctive and not good for either side in the end. Jason will get PR, but its bad PR...then again it's the classic question of IS there such a thing as bad PR?
It's also obvious that Netscape clearly modelled their entire system of Digg in hopes they would receive the same success it did. For that reason alone, I didn't even consider using their service.
Kevin really doesn't need something like this going on, especially when the other party doesn't understand the ideals of the system Kevin is trying to maintain and develop.
Don't worry, it will all go away in a couple of weeks and Digg will still be the popular site it is now while Netscape will remain boring...
=)
This is merely the last resort for Calcanis. With the limited success of his Digg ripoff, he has to try to do something to promote Netscape's site. As Leo stated even if some of the major posters leave nothing will change. People go to Digg because they like the community and what it stands for. Even with the same model Netscape cannot emulate the community that makes Digg what it is. As long as Digg continues to innovate they will be around for a long time to conme.
Check out Digg Stack and Swarm. I think this is great.GO DIGG!!!
One last thing. I may be incorrect but as I understand Digg makes little money if any at all at this point. Dvorak mentioned this to Kevin on his Cranky Geeks Podcast last week. Kevin only replied by saying they have some add revenue. Nonetheless, I presume that Kevin is definitely not a money hungy capitalist
My previous post disappeared into the ether, so hopefully this won't be a double post.
The best thing that Kevin could have done is keep quiet. As very correctly stated, 10 people moving to Netscape is not going to change the essence of what Digg is, a community driven site with some killer features to boot. The chances of the community moving en masse to Netscape are slim to none. All this has done is get Jason a few more minutes of airtime. Kevin should have let the community make its own decision.
I was surprised Kevin gave any kind of response to this latest episode. I believe Calcanis thinks if he makes Netscape walk like dig, and talk like, it will replace digg.
Jason should stop expending all this energy on getting free publicity and try something unique like working harder to come up with a better idea than digg.
In other words, put up or shut up.
Guys, Jason has said he does not want to replace digg. There is room for all the websites.
I don't see a problem with paying the guys, but I also think there certainly is value in those active users in these sites. Not that they are the only ones valuable on Digg for example.
Netscape could use more guys adding content, but without a large number of users it will be hard for it to really take off.
I actually think it will take off, in time.
This is going back and forth between sides and Calacanis is getting quite a bit of free press.
Jason can do whatever he wants with his money, fine by me. But one of the reasons Kevin isn't dishing out money to his top contributors is because of the growth rate and he is one of the few people working at Digg. Jason works for AOL and Netscape so he doesn't have to pay a dime to anything.
Nothing is going to replace Digg in the near future. I have never been to the Netscape version, and have no future plans. It is nowhere near as, well cool, as Digg is.
As mndoci said, 10 people switching is not going to make a difference. 10 other people would just take their places. No big deal.
This is going to get dirty, ladies and gentlemen.
Calcanis seemed rather obnoxious in TWiT 57
And his Netscape fiasco proves it...thanks Calcanis =)
Thanks for the recap, I originally thought that there was a rumor that Mr Rose would pay Digg's top posters, which admittedly seems quite silly. While I noted the delusional nature of Mr Calacanis' response to Mr Rose's so-called ad hominem attack, such an argument would not be out of place, given the sleazy "buy the internet" approach which Calacanis appears to be taking.
Calacanis has only two real motives. One to create PR for a site that is really just the whining little Brother who starts fights for attention. Two he is hoping to start a fight between diggers and hopes that a few will jump over to Netscape.
The Internet has always been a place where originality thrives... so I agree that Calacanis's 'bid' is fairly pointless. What's really interesting is that Netscape seems to be pulling a Walmart 'Hub' by using money to draw people into something that Digg managed to draw people into by originality.
agreed. kevin's been prone to avoid that issue on other shows like crankygeeks. i guess it just takes a couple beers and/or jagger shots.
Also, Kevin started the whole concept of Digg and the way it works. Also, if Jason paid the top users, it wouldn't really do anything anyway.
I agree with Shooby. I just watched TWiT 57, and Calacanis seems very full of himself, not the type of person you'd want running a Digg style community site.
You tell'um Leo, netscape - bad...digg - good.
Yeah! You go girl! No one is going to move to this netscape thing from Digg because we all love digg and Kevin and his team have created a gift to the tech community and we're not going to forget it any time soon. G
I post to Digg like once a month, but if I was doing it regularly and someone offered me a chunk of change to do it somewhere else I probably would take it. Kevin seems like a nice guy, and Digg is a great site but I can see a lot of the top people taking Netscape up on this offer.
The trouble is as you pointed out Leo they'd need to buy out the entire user base in order to actually have a major effect on Digg, because nobody who isn't going to get paid will switch.
This is just like the old days of fighters trading retorts in the press to generate hype for their fight. Only in this case Rose didn't agree to the bout. They both get great press and it furthers both of their causes. The wrinkle here is that Netscape ripped off Digg. If that hadn't happened there would be nothing to talk about. Digg is the open source model and Netscape is just another site with employees working for the site.
Someone suggested that Kevin shouldn't have responded to Calcanis, but I appreciated the stats he posted. I am not a big user of Digg, but it seems unlikely that the top ten posters are finding stuff no-one else submits, so if they leave it should have little immediate impact.
The real question is if it begins a trend where deep pockets try to leach off talent from more creative sites.
I have two issues:
First, Netscape is aimed at a broader audience than digg, which is focused on tech/gaming/digerati. This has implications with the future of both sites, whether Netscape copied digg or not. Where digg has a set of categories, netscape is using a tag model. If you don't think a tag model is better, try organizing your record collection by category.
Second, the structure of digg makes it very difficult to get a story on the front page unless you: a. have lots of friends or b. spend every waking hour searching for postable material and you luck out statistically. Digg acually is set up to build a 1% community, with no obvious methodology to try to get people promote low-count stories. It is easy to see someone logging in, checking their friends to see whom is posting what and then digging it without going to the recently submitted stories section. This is just a general gripe, with a glance to the open-source community for suggestions.
That being said... losing any top-tier posters is a loss, but there would have to be a major shift in users to even impact the diggbase. And Calcanis is an ass.